tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-214141237152702131.post273822853230150313..comments2021-07-27T07:39:37.462-04:00Comments on Dawan, Chawan, Chassabal: The “Kizaemon Ido”Cho Hakhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04798639210955177212noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-214141237152702131.post-44332088200201479552014-12-30T20:10:39.776-05:002014-12-30T20:10:39.776-05:00Thank you for commenting Lauren. My readers shoul...Thank you for commenting Lauren. My readers should also become acquainted with your work especially those near LA. I will contact Alan and see what I can do about acquiring the book for you and others. This post suggests a special price of $30.00. But the price has probably gone back to $39,00 the original published price. That said I have seen it at over $100 on Amazon or Ebay. We will seewhat happens.Cho Hakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04798639210955177212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-214141237152702131.post-51940325065018067792014-12-30T02:03:28.911-05:002014-12-30T02:03:28.911-05:00I am so happy to have read this piece, for many re...I am so happy to have read this piece, for many reasons, not the least of which is to learn of Jon Covell's interest in chanoyu relevant ceramics and her having lived @ Daitokoji. I am familiar with her work (and that of Alan) about Korean shamanism. The latter, as well as chanoyu, are the two deepest areas of my interest. If there is a copy of The World of Korean Ceramics that is available, please let me know via my Facebook page "The Way of Tea in LA". Thanks.Lauren W. Deutschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10062322375647990568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-214141237152702131.post-91536846197589638642011-06-04T09:24:55.222-04:002011-06-04T09:24:55.222-04:00Soyoo, I believe Kikuchi is very biased. You c...Soyoo, I believe Kikuchi is very biased. You can read an essay at the William Morris Society page: http://www.morrissociety.org/JWMS/SP97.12.2.Kikuchi.pdf<br />Cooper is better. He has no axe to grind, but is pretty factual. <br />Chiaki Ajioka's essay at the same site is excellent and disagrees with Kikuchi's assessment. <br />http://www.morrissociety.org/JWMS/SP98.12.4.Ajioka.pdf<br />Yanagi tried to protect local culture in Korea, but also the culture of Okinawa and that of the Ainu from the infringements of Imperial Japan. I have disagreements with Yanagi about the role of modern studio potters in Mingei, but those disagreements do not in anyway question his desire to protect local culture. Lee Love in Mpls. I apprenticed in Mashiko, JapanTogeikahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03718418401458480928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-214141237152702131.post-74651915125173456232011-04-01T22:52:55.182-04:002011-04-01T22:52:55.182-04:00For a fascinating take on the Mingei movement and ...For a fascinating take on the Mingei movement and it's proponent Yanagi, type in "Japanese modernisation and Mingei theory" by Yukio Kikuchi into Google.<br />For somebody like myself who has been under the influence of "Unknown Craftsman" since it's publication it was an eyeopener and gives tremendous insight into the movement, and one of it's founders.I hoped to get a copy of this book but copies start at $175 on Amazon!Out of this potter's reach at least for now.<br />Another excellant source of information about Yanagi is the recent biography of Bernard Leach by Emmanuel Cooper. However, I won't reccomend this book to anyone who wishes to keep Leach & friends on their pedestal as it shows all involved with all their warts (which are considerable - remember we're talking about world renown artists & philosophers ) but gives additional insight into Yanagi , Leach, & Hamada. BTW, I'm in Korea and would enjoy hearing from anyone in the area at soyooart.com, my wife's website. Greg CUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01093179105428633641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-214141237152702131.post-40685673449300689492010-10-17T14:36:52.893-04:002010-10-17T14:36:52.893-04:00Soyoo, I really appreciate your comments.
I assu...Soyoo, I really appreciate your comments. <br />I assumed that you were a potter and from your comments and questions probably a good one. I’m attempting to comprise a list or the American potters living and working in Korea. I don’t know of many but the list does seem to be slowly growing. As I am sure you have discovered Korea is bursting at the seams with ceramic artists and supports a true ceramic culture – currently more than Japan or China if my Japanese and Chinese potter friends are correct. <br />I just presented an address at OEUK 2010 in Ulsan and was amazed at the effort and money put forth to make that event a success. <br />As for your idea that “…the Japanese got the idea of using Korean rice bowls as tea bowls after watching Koreans rinse the last few grains of rice from their bowls with water or barley or corn tea at meal's end”. From what I understand, the tradition of using bowls comes originally from China along with the word ‘cha-wan’ that is really a Chinese word not a Japanese one. “Wan” means bowl. The practice of using powdered tea is a long one. During the Goryeo Dynasty in Korea the practice was to grind the tea, in front of the guests, into a powder in a bowl with a ‘grinding spoon’ then make the liquid tea from it. A kind of ‘do it yourself’ matcha. So the practice of using powdered tea isn’t Japanese either. What the Japanese have done is market their culture better than any other Asian country. So we think of many things as being Japanese when they are really of Chinese or Korean origin. I remember many years ago there was a Japanese book with the title something like How to Wrap an Egg that showed a number of eggs wrapped with rice straw – very beautiful and poetic. Many people thought, “How clever of the Japanese”. The old method of wrapping eggs that way was/is Korean. In a like manner there are many “Japanese” ceramic practices, aesthetic values and tea ceremony practices that have their roots in Korea. Sen Rikyu had a Korean grandfather who was an aesthetician working in Japan. After all, Korea was the first country to have a ceremony involving tea long before either China or Japan. That is why I use the word ‘dawan’ in the title of this blog. A ‘dawan’ is a ceremony bowl and I often hear Koreans refer to tea bowls as a ‘dawan’.Cho Hakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04798639210955177212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-214141237152702131.post-88073930865208697382010-10-13T21:49:40.960-04:002010-10-13T21:49:40.960-04:00Dear Cho Hak;
What a pleasant suprise to read my c...Dear Cho Hak;<br />What a pleasant suprise to read my contribution to your blog- I was at least a sentance into it before I recognised it as my writing.<br />The potter who examined the Kizaemon bowl was the winner of a prestigious teabowl competition in Japan.One of the judges was , I believe ( I say believe because this was my wife's translation to me}the roshi at Daito-kuji (into whose safekeeping the bowl was entrusted several hundred ears ago)and as part of his reward for beating all the competition the roshi felt that the potter deserved to examine the treasure.I learned this when I correctly identified the bowl in the photos prominently displayed in the potter's showroom.He was amazed that I knew exactly what I was looking at.It was he who espoused the theory that the Ido bowls came to Japan before the age of "wabi style" tea.<br />I didn' meen to suggest that Koreans don't touch their rice bowls while eating rather that they don't-as a rule- lift them off the table.While this is only an idea based on my observation,I've been eating with Koreans -granted fairly well educated Koreans-for 25 years.Did I mention that my wife is a Korean artist? As you said a high footed bowl is easier to glaze than a low footed one,and a high footed rice bowl -Japanese style- is easier to lift from the table than a low footed- Korean style-bowl would be.<br /> Another thought that occured to me is this: is it possible that the Japanese got the idea of using Korean rice bowls as tea bowls after watching Koreans rinse the last few grains of rice from their bowls with water or barley or corn tea at meal's end? I've only observed this among elderly and well educated younger people.Perhaps a legacy of the extreme hardships that all but the wealthiest Koreans suffered up until the sixties? Just an idea.BTW my wife and I are in Korea to oversee the final details of the house we're building outside of Geochang.With any luck there will be a studio for me to work in.Did I mention that I, also, am a potter?<br />Regards,<br /> Greg CUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01093179105428633641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-214141237152702131.post-13436633036070109482010-09-01T00:41:28.107-04:002010-09-01T00:41:28.107-04:00As for the high foot, one should not rule out anot...As for the high foot, one should not rule out another reason. A bowl, especially a small bowl, is easier to glaze with a higher foot. Certainly there is ample evidence that shows the Korean potter held the foot as a handle for glazing these bowls. The bowl is quickly thrown and quickly glazed. Small bowls with really short feet, like some of Korea’s and Japan’s other tea bowls styles, were more awkward to glaze. I have seen some examples where the bowl was held by its side when it was glazed.<br />Some theories suggest that the Idos were rice bowls for humble people. Other theories suggest that they were not rice bowls but made for a specific tea bowl order from Japan. Some tea ware experts claim that while there are few Ido ‘survivors’ but that there are many shards. Some theories suggest that Sen Rikyu was a fraud and along with Hideyoshi trumped up the whole wabi sabi tea thing to simply get rid of some of Hideyoshi’s vast collection of tea ware. Nearly all the theories suggest some reason for a limited production of Ido. In any case, it is because of the Ido bowl that Korea has the reputation for making high feet on their bowls when there are many other types of Korean tea bowls with short feet. <br />You are probably right in that they are not ordinary ceremony bowls like a ‘dawan’ but there are many Koreans who in ordinary conversation use the word ‘dawan’ and mean tea bowl. Were the Idos ‘captive bowls’ as I suggested? Honestly one can’t be sure. Not all Korean teabowls in Japan were ‘captive’ as many were ordered and imported. <br />We are however certain about a few things the Idos are simple and not contrived – a fact that could wash away some theories. After years of study they still maintain their integrity and claim our interest.<br />I discussed your post with a couple of internationally known Korean teabowl artists; (think of some of the best known tea artists in Korea, and your may know to whom I spoke). In essence they agreed that it is all theory and we really don’t know the answer to some very interesting questions about these bowls. During one of those discussions one tea bowl master pulled out a large book with photos of all the Ido bowls known – amazing. I coveted that out of print book. That master is trying to find specifically where in Korea the Kizaemon was made. If your teacher knows that answer, please share it. <br />Incidentally, your teacher must have some inside pull to be able to touch the Kizaemon bowl even if he used gloves gloves. What is real is the passion and esteem surrounding the Kizaemon bowl both in Japan and Korea.Cho Hakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04798639210955177212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-214141237152702131.post-44987986527173578542010-09-01T00:29:02.859-04:002010-09-01T00:29:02.859-04:00Greg, Thanks for your comments and the addition to...Greg, Thanks for your comments and the addition to this discussion. I apologize for not responding to your comments earlier. When your post arrived I had just landed in Korea to host a group of international ceramic artists on a ceramic artist exhibit and tour. That took most of my time for the month. Now I have a little time to think about what you are suggesting.<br />First, I’ve heard similar theories before. Most of the theories revolve around a limited production for some reason or another. Basically some suggest that they were made specifically in one area or even at one kiln site. I personally subscribe to that theory as most of Korean ware of various styles can trace their origin to one area or even one kiln. This is particularly true for buncheong and other Joseon Dynasty ware. Individual artists were producing the ware and certainly individuality and creativity wasn’t absent. Individual artists change style for many reasons. <br />In trying to understand the ware we have to try to understand or ‘channel’ the potter who was making it. We can’t assume for instance that they thought like us or abided by the same rules of etiquette as contemporary Koreans. These were not high-class people. Some suggest that they ranked about the same as prostitutes and butchers (not to put down either profession). It was just as that society was structured. In some cases you can put monks in the same category during that period of history. So when you say Koreans don’t touch their bowls when eating we can view that with some suspect even though it is the polite way to eat in Korea. If you really watch Koreans eat – and I mean all walks of life, many hold their bowls or touch the foot of their bowls in spite of proper etiquette. It depends on the company and circumstance. These potters were not high-class individuals. They were not that interested in table manners. If you ever get to know some of the non-college educated potters, the ones not interested in analyzing or theory, the ones who simply create ware, especially the older potters, you will get a little closer to understanding the old Korean potter and the answers you seek.Cho Hakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04798639210955177212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-214141237152702131.post-58951352243716358352010-08-04T13:17:07.231-04:002010-08-04T13:17:07.231-04:00I spent several hours today in Icheon, Korea discu...I spent several hours today in Icheon, Korea discussing tea bowls in general and the Kizaemon bowl specifically with a Korean potter who held and examined the bowl some years ago.<br />It is his opinion that the revered Ido bowls were not everyday ricebowls that were made in the tens of thousands but were made by a small number of potters as 'trial runs' for a new shape that was abandoned after a short time. This would explain their rarity for they were always treasured once they reached Japan and were not subject to attrition the way commoner pottery is. It's also his belief that the Ido bowls came to Japan before the age of 'Wabi' tea and were not singled out in Korea for special attention.<br />Another view held by some Korean authorities is that the famous Ido bowls were special from the time of their creation because they were made as ceremonial offertory pots and were never the 'common crockery' of conventional wisdom. He bases this on the high foot which is common on ceremonial pieces but would be unstable when used to eat rice from. If you've ever seen Koreans and Japanese eat rice from a bowl there are real differences. Japanese will hold the bowl in one hand while eating out of it with chopsticks while a Korean leaves the bowl on the table while eating out of it with either chopsticks or a long handled spoon.A high footed bowl full of rice(or water or barley tea used to rinse out the last remaining grains of rice) is unstable when eaten from in the Korean manner.<br /> The offertory bowl theory seems unlikely to me as these bowls are crudely made by any standards and the Koreans were certainly capable of producing more refined ware for civil and religious purposes, something that was taken very seriously.<br /> By the way every potter in Korea who works in the traditional style makes his version of these bowls . Greg Caltabiano 8/4/2010 Geochong, KoreaUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01093179105428633641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-214141237152702131.post-39369983982912432992010-02-06T00:20:19.140-05:002010-02-06T00:20:19.140-05:00Here is the deal on obtaining the book "The W...Here is the deal on obtaining the book "The World of Korean Ceramics" by Jon Carter and Alan Covell. The original price was $39.95 in 1986. The current price is only $30.00 plus shipping anywhere in the world. To purchase it, contact me by e-mail that is found in my profile. You can pay me by pay pal once I determine the authors shipping price. When I receive the funds, he will ship the book. Then I'll transfer the funds to him. The book will be signed by Alan Covell as his mother Jon Covell has passed away. I can't recommend this book more highly. It is richly illustrated and photos are all in color. But it is a small book only 128 pages. This is my go-to book on Korean ceramics and I have many books on the subject.Cho Hakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04798639210955177212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-214141237152702131.post-21732930730994742532010-02-05T00:11:03.976-05:002010-02-05T00:11:03.976-05:00Cho Hak,
One is interested in getting a copy of t...Cho Hak,<br /><br />One is interested in getting a copy of that book. How can one go about that?<br /><br />PeaceMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02736984697520031171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-214141237152702131.post-73664132643805266062010-02-01T20:00:47.733-05:002010-02-01T20:00:47.733-05:00The original price for this highly illustrated and...The original price for this highly illustrated and informative book was $39.95 USD in 1986. I have seen used copies on Amazon.com for $125 USD. I can have the author send you a signed copy for $30 USD plus shipping. It would be signed by Alan Covell co-author. His mother Jon Carter Covell has passed away. Quantities are limited, one to a customer.Cho Hakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04798639210955177212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-214141237152702131.post-65088332944697086342010-02-01T07:01:28.128-05:002010-02-01T07:01:28.128-05:00Go to my "full profile" and email me. I...Go to my "full profile" and email me. I'll contact the author and get the price for you. It was reasonable the last time I checked.Cho Hakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04798639210955177212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-214141237152702131.post-18345444373957315822010-01-31T17:10:08.250-05:002010-01-31T17:10:08.250-05:00What would be the price for The World of Korean Ce...What would be the price for The World of Korean Ceramics?dwinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10944381720280768566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-214141237152702131.post-37167737426954439942010-01-31T12:48:58.659-05:002010-01-31T12:48:58.659-05:00Yanagi's book, The Unknown Craftsman, is still...Yanagi's book, The Unknown Craftsman, is still available now in paperback. You can also order a signed copy (by Alan Covell) of, The World of Korean Ceramics, through me. I know the author and he has a few copies left. Any comments or suggestions for this blog are welcome.Cho Hakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04798639210955177212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-214141237152702131.post-52174211758219321782010-01-30T21:41:20.450-05:002010-01-30T21:41:20.450-05:00Thanks for the name of that book, another one for ...Thanks for the name of that book, another one for my library I hopedwinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10944381720280768566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-214141237152702131.post-28089875869419977132010-01-30T15:51:40.131-05:002010-01-30T15:51:40.131-05:00Hi Angela,
Thanks for your comment. If, as you sa...Hi Angela,<br />Thanks for your comment. If, as you say, you “know beauty” when you see it, then you are vastly qualified to comment on this blog. Even if you did not “know beauty”, you would be qualified to comment on this blog. For “knowing” or “not knowing” seem to come from ones personal perception of their own ability to perceive; not from some external “know it all” judgment that might come from someone else who “really knows”.<br />“Beauty” is best perceived directly without too much knowledge. Yanagi said, “The eye of knowledge, . . , cannot see beauty.” In other words it is good that you approach this subject with little “knowledge”. It is not good that your perception of your abilities “disqualifies” you when you are the perfect person to comment about what you see since you “see directly” being unencumbered with too much “knowledge”. <br />Or better yet: Thanks for joining the discussion, your comments are valuable and very welcome.Cho Hakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04798639210955177212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-214141237152702131.post-78556387577634593352010-01-30T13:56:57.900-05:002010-01-30T13:56:57.900-05:00Your blog is so beautiful. I am not qulalified to...Your blog is so beautiful. I am not qulalified to comment on this subject which I know so little about, but I do know beauty when I see it. Thank you for following my blog. I believe I will learn a lot from your blog postings.<br /><br />AngelaAngela Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08965116652023058618noreply@blogger.com